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23 April 2005 @ 22:39
Gallifrey Go BOOM  
So not_vacillating has the pokey-stick out.

I'm gonna state up front that my knowledge of canon is limited to the aired episodes. I know bugger-all about fanon sources such as the novels or audio adventures. So this is based on my (somewhat limited by time and fuzzy recollection) knowledge of the series alone (which includes most of Three, all of Four, most of Five, parts of Six, vague rumours about Seven, and Eight on video tape somewhere in my basement).

Gallifrey go BOOM (and should stay went BOOM)

What defines the new series for me—and defines the Ninth Doctor in my mind—is the destruction of Gallifrey.

The Time War is being set up as the arc of the season, and I have become fascinated with it, because it has significantly changed both the character of the Doctor, and the Doctor Who universe as we know it.

The way I always understood it, the Doctor stole a TARDIS because he was disgusted with his people, and the fact that they had the power to help, but not the compassion to use that power. He held Gallifreyan society in contempt, and rebelled.

With the destruction of Gallifrey, the Doctor's status changes. His entire sense of self is changed. He's not a rebel Time Lord any longer. He's now the last Time Lord. And that changes the playing field considerably. It changes how he views himself, it changes how he views his people, and it affects any relationships he may have with anyone he meets.

Even in exile, the possibility still existed that Gallifrey could change. That the Doctor could be a force of change for his people. That he could have a home to go back to that was not the home he left—that he chose to leave, and that he was barred from returning to. That possibility meant that there was hope. Even if it was a hope he wasn't aware he held.

But are you still a rebel, if the world and the attitudes you were rebelling against no longer exist? And what do you do, when you lose something that is such a huge part of your sense of self? How do you adjust when a hope you may not have realised you held out, is extinguished completely?

I said, after "End of the World" that the loss of Gallifrey "woobified" the Doctor. I only half-meant it as a joke. The way, in the 5 aired episodes, the Doctor has been affected by the destruction of Gallifrey has made him more vulnerable than we have seen him in previous incarnations.

His anguish over the Time War was hinted at in his exchange with the Nestene Consciousness. "I couldn't save your world—I couldn't save any of them," was a line read with considerable emotion, as the Nestene blamed the Time Lord, and his reaction was emotional. While some incarnations of the past wouldn't have been as hesitatant to use the anti-plastic the moment the threat was identified, this incarnation held out hope that the situation could be resolved without destroying the Consciousness. Despite his experiences with the Autons in the past.

His reaction to Rose's quite reasonable question of where he was from out of proportion to her query. His response is to practically shout "This is who I am. Right here, right now. All right? All that counts is here and now. And this is me." As a viewer, I interpreted his response as the Doctor clinging to the present, because the past is gone.

The Gelth used the Doctor's guilt over the Time War to manipulate him. It's strongly implied in "Unquiet Dead" that they used Gwynneth's gift to "read" him, and play on his sympathies to get what they wanted. They played him, pure and simple, and Earth almost paid the price.

We don't get an explicit reference to the Time War in "Aliens of London", but what we do get is an examination of the Doctor's compassion. And you may laugh at the "Pigs in Space" reference. But the Doctor's empathy for the frightened animal's death is an example for the audience of the Doctor's "humanity." Even thought the character is set up to be "alien", it's his very alienness that allows the character to hold up a distorted mirror to reveal what is best in humanity. In the moment where he bends down to offer comfort to a dying animal, we see a very pure example of compassion. It's that same compassion that he saw as lacking in his own people.

This Doctor is alone. Before, he chose it. He chose to leave Gallifrey. He chose to rebel. He chose to continue travelling. Now that choice has been revoked. He is alone in a way he never has been before. Which brings me to his choice to take on a new companion, and how his relationship with Rose is defined by his loss of Gallifrey.

The Doctor has witnessed—and been scarred by—an ending. So it makes sense that he would look for a beginning. By viewing the Universe through Rose's eyes, he can experience it as something new and wondrous, seeing possibilities for the first time—instead of seeing his piece of it that is no longer there. He takes delight in her delight at things that are old hat to him, but an extraordinary new adventure for her. It allows him to experience the universe in a way that might otherwise have been lost to him, because he has found a companion with a sense of adventure and wonder equal to his own.

It's established in "Rose" that Rose is in many ways an adult among children. Jackie turns Rose's ordeal into something all about her, including making disparaging comments about how the ordeal has "aged her—skin like an old Bible." Mickey is concerned only to the degree of missing part of a football match. Rose accepts this from the two people closest to her, and when both of them are threatened, Rose is the one who steps in to protect them.

When the Doctor tells Rose to "leg it" because the Nestene Consciousness is beginning to transmit the signal, Rose's first instinct is to call her mum and warn her. Not self-preservation—but looking after her loved ones. While Mickey is utterly useless, Rose stays by his side. When the Doctor is threatened, Rose takes action to help him, despite the potential consequences to herself. Rose initially rejects the Doctor's offer because "someone needs to look after [Mickey]." It's only when she learns that the TARDIS travels in time as well as space that Rose allows herself to make a choice to actually benefit her—instead of catering to the needs of the people around her.

While the Doctor has had travelling companions in the past, I don't think—emotionally—he has previously needed one as much as he needs Rose, in the wake of the destruction of Gallifrey. And that fundamentally changes their relationship, in comparison with companions of yore. It makes him vulnerable—needing someone always makes you vulnerable—but it also make him stronger, because he's forging a strong relationship out of that need that is more of a partnership than many of his previous liaisons with companions.

And because he is vulnerable, he's not above using emotional blackmail. In "World War Three" when Jackie invites him to tea, he dangles the wonders of the Universe like a carrot from a stick, literally, to force Rose to choose between him and her family. As if he's testing her conviction. He wants and needs her that badly. He is intensely uncomfortable with families (there are repeated variations of the line "I don't do families" over the course of the two part episode) and appears to actually flee Rose's farewell with Jackie. Yet he began his journey in the TARDIS with his granddaughter in tow. So it's worth mentioning that he is so visibly uncomfortable with Rose's ties to her family.

By choosing Rose, the Doctor has involved himself with someone who will challenge him the same way he tried to challenge his people. Rose gives as good as she gets, has strong opinions, and doesn't allowed herself to be cowed by him. This is particularly apparent in "The Unquiet Dead" when Rose argues with him regarding using Gwynneth to assuage his own sense of guilt. Rose may have been right for the wrong reasons—but she was still willing to stand up for herself, and stand up for someone whom she saw as her responsibility, whom she did not believe capable of standing up for herself. This pattern of behaviour echoes the Doctor's own desire to use the power he has as a Time Lord to help people, rather than merely observing and recording. But also to actually experience life, instead of merely witnessing it. It's that thirst for adventure that defines both the Doctor and Rose, in that respect.

Unlike many previous companions, Rose was not stranded. She is not merely a hitch-hiker. She also made a conscious choice, much as the Doctor did when he left Gallifrey. She wasn't content with the life she had, was frustrated by the complacency of the people closest to her (as illustrated by Jackie's comment that working in Henriks was giving Rose "airs and graces" and Rose's dismay over lunch with Plastic!Mickey over having limited options for employment due to her lack of education). So the series has consciously set Rose up as a much-smaller-in-scale mirror of the Doctor, in many ways.

Ignoring the meta-question of whether the pacing of the growth relationship has validity, or is being rushed, the way it is presented in canon is this: Rose looks after people. And the Doctor needs looking after. That's how their relationship starts. And I don't think it would have started—or grown so close so quickly—if it hadn't been for the destruction of Gallifrey.

As a viewer, I am clinging to the idea that Gallifrey is gone forever and cannot be visited or resurrected, and the Doctor is the Last Time Lord, because it gives the story a dimension is has not had before. And that is a defining aspect of this new series which I would like to see explored.

To me, it's like Superman.

(What? We're in Smallville, now? No. Trust me. This relates.)

The heart of the character of Superman is that Krypton is gone, and he is the last of his kind, and he is alone. It gave a sense of epic tragedy to a silly little four-colour comic aimed at 8 year olds and GIs. It's part of why the character has endured for 60+ years, because it took a guy who was wearing his underwear on the outside, and gave the story a sense of pathos.

However, as time went on, that core was eroded by the appearance of a cousin (Supergirl), a shrunken city (the bottled city of Kandor), and the villains in the Phantom Zone. You chip away at an epic story, until it's a joke. He's the Last Son of Krypton (Except For All These Other Folks, and the Dog, Horse, Cat, and Monkey*).

If the writers of the current series are going to destroy Gallifrey—wipe it and all other Time Lords out of existence, possibly even erasing their very existence—then the impact of that decision is diminished if you have the Doctor discovering other surviving Time Lords, or be able to travel into Gallifrey's past. It would actively undermine the pathos for me. It would feel, in short, like a cheat.

The whole dynamic of the central relationship in the series—the Doctor and Rose—is delicately balanced on the Doctor's grief over the loss of Gallifrey. I'm not saying that it's impossible to resurrect Gallifrey or the Time Lords and still make the series captivate me the way it has.

I am saying there would have to be a serious amount of fancy footwork to make it not feel like the whole Time War arc was nothing but a put-on. A smoke and mirrors light show. Because from the moment Jabe first accessed the Metal-Mind on Platform One and scanned the Doctor, I went as a viewer from "Wheeeee! My show is back and it's so much fun!" to "OMG I am now thoroughly obsessed."

The destruction of Gallifrey changes everything, and I am fascinated with how those changes make themselves felt with each episode that is transmitted. I'm enjoying learning the new terrain, now that the face of the playing field has been so dramatically changed.

I just don't want, at the end of episode 13, to have the lights come up and find out all that depth was just shadow-play.




*There were, I am so not lying here, a Kryptonian wonder-dog, super horse, super cat, and super monkey named, if memory servers, Krypto, Streaky, Comet, and Beppo. Okay, I could not MAKE THIS SHIT UP.
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mood: quixoticquixotic
 
 
 
Mireille: Doctor Who - Nine and Rosemireille719 on 24th April 2005 03:51 (UTC)
*adds to memories*
Room the Rhymer: Gravewriterhalfwest on 24th April 2005 04:27 (UTC)
*woots and waves flag*

Awesomeness.
(Deleted comment)
ljc: doctor who MIBtaraljc on 24th April 2005 04:46 (UTC)
*iz skeered*

*screws up courage*

okay
teh nos': dw - he's gay and she's an aliennostalgia_lj on 24th April 2005 04:46 (UTC)

The way I always understood it, the Doctor stole a TARDIS because he was disgusted with his people

They were Tories. *believes this utterly*

I think it's fair to say that, while incarnations of he past wouldn't have hesitated to use the anti-plastic the moment the threat was identified

See, I'd say they'd have tried Niceness first. Well, except the Seventh. He'd go back in time and set it up to you'd die, and then SAY he'd given you the chance and it was YOUR OWN FAULT DAMMIT. That's why I love him, omg!

"This is who I am. Right here, right now. All right? All that counts is here and now. And this is me." As a viewer, I interpreted his response as the Doctor clinging to the present, because the past is gone.

I wondered if he'd done a Bad Thing, or a Thing about which he is vaguely guilty. *ponders*

He takes delight in her delight at things that are old hat to him, but an extraordinary new adventure for her. It allows him to experience the universe in a way that might otherwise have been lost to him, because he has found a companion with a sense of adventure and wonder equal to his own.

Omg, see, I knew there was a reason he was taking her to really boring relatively normal places. He's working up to it. Well, that or 'The Time Lord Guide To Dating' has a bit that goes "Take your intended sexual partner to see his/her/its home planet destroyed. They always like that one, and it's cheaper than a restaurant."

It makes him vulnerable--needing someone always makes you vulnerable--but it also make him stronger, because he's forging a strong relationship out of that need that is more of a partnership than many of his previous liaisons with companions.

And there's another thing - for all that we're blaming RTD for forcing it all a bit fast, maybe the Doctor really is pushing too much too soon because he wants to get close to someone. And maybe he's going "Right, apparently if you shag them you get to keep them. Should possibly try that at some point..." I'd be very impressed if it were that or something.

By choosing Rose, the Doctor has involved himself with someone who will challenge him the same way he tried to challenge his people. Rose gives as good as she gets, has strong opinions, and doesn't allowed herself to be cowed by him.

I reckon that's the ones he likes best anyway. *thinks* Like, he so totally liked Peri much more when he hated her. Or something. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, DAMMIT.

possibly even erasing their very existence

I wondered about that when Jabe said "it's remarkable that you even exist". So, people seem to have heard to Gallifrey and what happened to it, but not to actually expect any of them to turn up ever ever again.

Because from the moment Jabe first accessed the Metal-Mind on Platform One and scanned the Doctor, I went as a viewer from "Wheeeee! My show is back and it's so much fun!" to "OMG I am now thoroughly obsessed."

And, oooh, Jabe. Once she brings up the subject, their relationship changes. It's less with the flirty and you have to wonder if he'd've shagged her asked her along with them if she'd survived.

I just don't want, at the end of episode 13, to have the lights come up and find out all that depth was just shadow-play.

...umm, how spoiled are you/do you want to be?
Vacillating: DW: peace and lovenot_vacillating on 24th April 2005 08:07 (UTC)
First, nos': I love the icon. Love it to pieces. Want to cuddle it and pet it and call it George. (why does this line suddenly give me internal Bra'tec? "Or Hammond of Texas." *shakes head very hard*)

They were Tories. *believes this utterly*

Dude, they so were.

This reminds me, I have a half-idea that cross-show comparision of 'Prime Directive', i.e. non-interference polices, might be interesting. SG-1 doesn't have one, Trek does, and DW outright says that it's the wrong appraoch. Sadly, I don't feel I know Trek well enough to argue it through with adequate evidence.

I wondered if he'd done a Bad Thing, or a Thing about which he is vaguely guilty. *ponders*

I wondered that too, and so far my best guess is that he feels guilty about not extending his policy of interference to the Gallifreians. Given how coldly he watched Cassandra die, I see the possibility that he knew the Time War was going to destroy Gallifrey, considered stepping in to save them, and then said, "no, their policy is no interference, let them find out for themselves where it gets them". I doubt that'll turn out to be right-- if I'm even on the right lines, RTD would make it so that in one way or another he *couldn't* have helped-- but it seems like a plausible image.

Well, that or 'The Time Lord Guide To Dating' has a bit that goes "Take your intended sexual partner to see his/her/its home planet destroyed. They always like that one, and it's cheaper than a restaurant."

Now I'm wondering how much else we can deduce about the Time Lord Guide to Dating, if we accept the theory (which actually I don't, but I like this idea, so I'm going to ignore my COMPLETE AND UTTER DISAGREEMENT with the premises, just for a sentance or two) that the Doctor is trying to date Rose. "Seeing death increases the sexual urge in some species. Try visiting a morgue if the exploding planet didn't work."? "Finally, do let them visit home if they keep asking to-- even if you're mortally afraid of their mothers."?

And there's another thing - for all that we're blaming RTD for forcing it all a bit fast, maybe the Doctor really is pushing too much too soon because he wants to get close to someone. And maybe he's going "Right, apparently if you shag them you get to keep them. Should possibly try that at some point..." I'd be very impressed if it were that or something.

As an internal explanation, I confess I quite like this. It fits with my theory about the Doctor being quite emotionally unstable and needing Rose to balance him.

I wondered about that when Jabe said "it's remarkable that you even exist". So, people seem to have heard to Gallifrey and what happened to it, but not to actually expect any of them to turn up ever ever again.

Now, when I heard that my first thought was that the Doctor, being half-human, would be a remarkable mix. Clearly our minds work along very different lines.

Once she brings up the subject, their relationship changes. It's less with the flirty and you have to wonder if he'd've shagged her asked her along with them if she'd survived.

He totally would have asked her along.

...umm, how spoiled are you/do you want to be?

I just sent her the brief episode description I have for episode 11-- with a warning, but still, I suspect, nos', that you and I are thinking the same thing.
(no subject) - nostalgia_lj on 24th April 2005 08:35 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - not_vacillating on 24th April 2005 10:13 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nostalgia_lj on 24th April 2005 10:40 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - not_vacillating on 24th April 2005 10:48 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nostalgia_lj on 24th April 2005 11:04 (UTC) (Expand)
oh, and star trek... - nostalgia_lj on 24th April 2005 10:37 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - warinbabylon on 24th April 2005 17:02 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nostalgia_lj on 24th April 2005 20:04 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - warinbabylon on 24th April 2005 20:06 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - aryas_zehral on 24th April 2005 18:10 (UTC) (Expand)
Elke Tanzer: ooh! new fandom! - from Rosenhoelke_tanzer on 24th April 2005 04:54 (UTC)
Very interesting post! I skipped over the bits from tonight's ep because I haven't seen it yet...

Utter speculation on my part: I'm thinking that there might have been a Time Lord traitor who survived the Time War by being a turncoat and standing aside and/or actively assisting in the destruction of Gallifrey. Or heck, more than one, because really cool evil is always a cabal, right? There are precedents for that sort of behavior by individuals from Gallifrey before, putting their own interests above that of their planet and/or the Universe (President Wossname in The Five Doctors, and probably The Master in most of his eps).

Who knows, maybe someone was hunkered down in The Fallout Shelter Of Rassilon. No one ever knew how powerful he was, you know... ;-)

*waits impatiently for the second half of AOL to arrive*

*twitches*
Vacillating: DW: peace and lovenot_vacillating on 24th April 2005 08:25 (UTC)
Utter speculation on my part: I'm thinking that there might have been a Time Lord traitor who survived the Time War by being a turncoat and standing aside and/or actively assisting in the destruction of Gallifrey. Or heck, more than one, because really cool evil is always a cabal, right? There are precedents for that sort of behavior by individuals from Gallifrey before, putting their own interests above that of their planet and/or the Universe (President Wossname in The Five Doctors, and probably The Master in most of his eps).

Hmm. That would explain what we know about episode 11, without totally destroying the depth ljc has identified. I like that you've managed to get the Master in there, too, because the whole no-other-Time-Lords thing made me keep wondering how they'd fit him in.

(ljc, I'm commenting too much, aren't I? Sorry.)
(no subject) - nostalgia_lj on 24th April 2005 08:36 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - majinbakahentai on 24th April 2005 11:33 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - marymac on 24th April 2005 12:35 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - majinbakahentai on 24th April 2005 12:44 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - taraljc on 24th April 2005 16:40 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - warinbabylon on 24th April 2005 17:04 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nostalgia_lj on 24th April 2005 20:23 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - warinbabylon on 24th April 2005 20:24 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - pbristow on 25th April 2005 18:39 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - budclare on 24th April 2005 18:33 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cedara on 25th April 2005 07:09 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nostalgia_lj on 24th April 2005 20:21 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nostalgia_lj on 24th April 2005 20:14 (UTC) (Expand)
The Reconfigurable Mind: let me thinktanacawyr on 24th April 2005 04:58 (UTC)
With the destruction of Gallifrey, the Doctor's status changes. His entire sense of self is changed. He's not a rebel Time Lord any longer. He's now the last Time Lord. [...] How do you adjust when a hope you may not have realised you held out, is extinguished completely?

And also, how do you adjust when you are suddenly the keeper of all the values fo a society whose values you previously spurned?

His role has changed in that way as well -- he previously could afford to scoff at the Time Lords' stodginess, as he frequently did. He's run away from the presidency several times, been exiled by them to Earth for a time, forcibly regenerated ... Hell, he went on the run from his own people to start with, rejecting all their values.

Now, he's the only safe-keeper of those values. Previously, he could afford to be astringent and even contemptuous of Gallifrey and its cultural stagnation. Now, if anyone were to make those same judgments, he'd probably leap to Gallifrey's defense. That's one HELLUVA shift in personal identity. He's the guardian of this culture that he never had much regard for in the past.
teh nos': dw - slapped by someone's mothernostalgia_lj on 24th April 2005 08:39 (UTC)
*politely disagrees, as is abnormal in this fandom*

I think he really hated their values That Much. Basically, they were Tories and the Doctor is a big ol' Pinko. The Doctor deciding he like them isn't the Doctor, in my wee head.
I Blame the Dutchmpoetess on 24th April 2005 05:08 (UTC)
Hrrrm. Yes. I think.

While the Doctor has had travelling companions in the past, I don't think--emotionally--he has needed one as much as he needs Rose, in the wake of the destruction of Gallifrey.

maeyan and I sat in the car for half an hour. In front of the house. Without going in. Going through every companion from Suasn to Ace, trying to figure out if there was anyone the Doctor actually invited to come along with him, without outside circumstances having made it necessary or obligatory. The closest we could get was Ace (since he was asked to take her home, but suggested she stay on board for 'a quick trip round the 12 galaxies and home in time for tea.' But with Ace, he had ulterior motives.)

We were looking at it from the "too fast, too fast, trying too hard to do things which are 'classic Dr. Who' but not taking the time to set them with enough internal continuity" angle, but the idea, as Nos said, that maybe it's intentional and the Doctor's the one pushing too fast, because he's lonely, off-balance, and needs someone... that bears thinking about.
Vacillating: DW: peace and lovenot_vacillating on 24th April 2005 07:45 (UTC)
I'm glad I reread this (have just e-mailed you the .doc with comments on) because you've added a paragraph. His attitude to families is an interesting one, because it seems to me that, while he's doing everything in his power to avoid Rose's previous family, he's not unwilling to construct his own family-- he wants Rose along, after all, and he invites Mickey. (I rest my case about the possibility of Doctor/Rose, btw. If the Doctor really felt jealous of Mickey, in any way at all, he wouldn't have issued that invitation.) I wonder if there could be an element of control-desire there-- Jackie feeding him isn't okay, because he's not in control there, while taking Rose along for company is okay, because he's in his own enviroment, which (as far as the TARDIS allows him) he has a measure of control over-- or can take the risks he chooses?

I think it wouldn't be an entirely surprising reaction. But then, neither would avoiding the awkwardness and potential boredom of eating with someone else's family. I suspect the Doctor gets bored quite quickly-- he like an anti-Rincewind (are you familiar with Discworld?): he seeks out danger and would loathe boredom (perhaps it would be more correct to say that Rincewind, who runs from the slightest hint of danger and loves boredom, is the anti-Doctor, the anti-adventure-hero).

P.S. Beppo?!
ljc: doctor who MIBtaraljc on 24th April 2005 08:16 (UTC)
Beppo the Super Monkey. I am so not making this shit up.

I rest my case about the possibility of Doctor/Rose, btw. If the Doctor really felt jealous of Mickey, in any way at all, he wouldn't have issued that invitation.

Whereas my immediate thought was that the dynamics of his relationship with Rose are such that he doesn't see her as someone to look after, but someone to have adventures *with* but Jackie's constant questioning of his ability to keep Rose safe has reminded him that she is a 19 year old girl who might actually need looking after--which would have been Mickey's role, to look after her, because he doesn't do that. He doesn't do mentor/guidance/parent with Rose. He doesn't think of her as a kid. He thinks of her as a compatriot. And Mickey *relinquishing* Rose to him, and basically saying "I can't do this because I'm nto cut out for it, so you'll have to go it alone" is really interesting.

I don't think he ever would have been jealous of Mickey becasue he's sort of secure in the knowledge that he can offer Rose more than Mickey could ever even consceive of, so the game is won before its ever started. But he does have more sympathy and compassion for Mickey, by the end of the ep. Hence the offer/truce. And he might be thinking solely in terms of wanting to do something for Rose--give her something familiar, and someone who can give her what he can't. I don't think--at this stage of the game--he ever believes he could give Rose what Mickey does (a physical relationship, a simple relationship, a relationship that is comfortable and familiar), but what he does give her is something different and better. He gives her the respect of an equal. He gives her a chance to act on her own, be strong on her own, fend for herself, and do more with her life than she ever would if she'd stayed in London as Mickey's girlfriend.
(no subject) - not_vacillating on 24th April 2005 10:22 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - taraljc on 29th April 2005 03:39 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nostalgia_lj on 24th April 2005 08:42 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - not_vacillating on 24th April 2005 10:26 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - starbrow on 24th April 2005 16:24 (UTC) (Expand)
ninerva: Who are you?ninerva on 24th April 2005 08:11 (UTC)
With the destruction of Gallifrey, the Doctor's status changes. His entire sense of self is changed. He's not a rebel Time Lord any longer. He's now the last Time Lord. And that changes the playing field considerably. It changes how he views himself, it changes how he views his people, and it affects any relationships he may have with anyone he meets.

Fascinating analysis, thank you. One thought occured to me, you explain the reasons why the Doctor needs Rose, I was wondering if, on the basis of this, we can read anything into his decision to take Rose, first and foremost, to see the destruction of her own world. His way of sharing an experience he can not possibly find the words to express. If it was just spectacle he wanted to share he could have taken her to see the destruction of any planet. Just a thought.
teh nos': dw - ninenostalgia_lj on 24th April 2005 08:45 (UTC)
I'd been assuming that about the blowing-up-Earth thing. It's like "Okay, here is the basis of Most Of My Current Personal Issues. Do you still like me?" It's not just the danger aspect he's showing her, it's also trying to let her know what he's like and why he's like that.
(no subject) - cedara on 25th April 2005 07:24 (UTC) (Expand)
fallenangeldead: doctorrosefallenangeldead on 24th April 2005 10:52 (UTC)
i love this, i really do *memories it*
thank you for that, it made good sunday morning reading :D
Rashka the Demon (wolf in the cave): Jin WTF facerashaka on 24th April 2005 11:38 (UTC)
I'm glad I found my way over to this essay cause it's helped to clarify some of my questions regarding the whole lost planet thing. I just started watching with this Doctor so all this is new to me, and I couldn't tell if the lost homeworld thing was new to this series or part of the previous one(s). Now I think i have a slightly better sense of it. So thanks! :)

A question: if he had a granddaughter at some point, does that make it canonically possible for him to be male in the humanoid sense and thus totally shippable? Cause dude, there's an awful lot of hand holding and girlfriend/boyfriend jokes in the 4 eps I've seen so far.
ljc: doctor who MIBtaraljc on 24th April 2005 19:47 (UTC)
From what I understand, in the tie-in novels they had a war, and there's a lot fo confsion in the fandom as yet, as to whetehr or not the novels are meant to be considered canon.

But yeah, on the series, Gallifrey was alive and... kicking is too strong a word. Glaring disapprovingly, probably, would be mroe accurate.

Yes, the grand-daughter's very existance seems to imply he's had sex at least once in his life--but then, the series actually never addresses how Time Lords reproduce, tho there's fanon involving them being woven like carpets or somesuch...
(no subject) - rashaka on 24th April 2005 20:00 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cedara on 25th April 2005 07:35 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rashaka on 25th April 2005 07:52 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cedara on 25th April 2005 08:12 (UTC) (Expand)
Woven on a Loooooom! - nostalgia_lj on 24th April 2005 20:29 (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Woven on a Loooooom! - not_vacillating on 25th April 2005 09:58 (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Woven on a Loooooom! - nostalgia_lj on 25th April 2005 11:01 (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Woven on a Loooooom! - pbristow on 25th April 2005 19:24 (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Woven on a Loooooom! - redstarrobot on 25th April 2005 21:23 (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Woven on a Loooooom! - redstarrobot on 25th April 2005 21:18 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - brainiacfive on 30th April 2005 03:48 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nostalgia_lj on 24th April 2005 20:39 (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - pbristow on 25th April 2005 19:25 (UTC) (Expand)
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Alialicambs on 24th April 2005 14:40 (UTC)
What a wonderful and thoughtful essay on Dr Who. I an thoroughly enjoying the series, and I think this is due to some great casting in regards to Rose and the Dr, and an enjoyable sense of continuation and consequence, particularly in the way that Rose's mother and boyfriend have been a major part of the four episodes we've seen already (or is it 5 I've got confused *g*). I am also delighted by the Doctor's irrverence, wit, charm and ability to be direct, caustic, abrasive and downright personal when he needs to be, witness his conversations with Mickey! I also love the comedy, mainly because it pokes fun at the series as well as the subjects. All in all, Dr Who is a great success and, like you, I want the destruction of Gallifrey to mean something very deep.

PS It's the DALEKS next week!
ljc: TARDIS callingtaraljc on 24th April 2005 19:50 (UTC)
I think I've had my fill of 2005/6 Jackie and Mickey for a while--but I do think it's interesting that the Doctor has now asked Rose, what? 4 times to come with him? And each time she's said yes. I think we needed to see Jackie and Mickey give her tacit approval to go off in space-time, or else it would have been hanging over her head for the rest fo the series that she abandonned these people who relied on her. Now she's free and clear to go off and have a life of her own without feeling guilty.

Meanwile, I am utterly digging the Doctor being a bit of a complete bastard, with the emotional blackmail.

Poor Jackie, tho. That's going to be the longest 10 seconds of her life. Because I--being unspoiled--am assuming that Rose never actually ever comes home.
(Deleted comment)
meegatmeegat on 24th April 2005 15:15 (UTC)
Wow
I HAD to reply to this!

A perfect analysis - and I'm a bit like you...I've watched the series (not from day one - I'm not THAT old) but from early 70's without missing an episode. Love it to bits. Have bought a lot of the new adventures books but...not read them.

I loved the Gallifrey destruction - right after the jaw-dropping, holy shit kind of shock element - and "Eccles" is playing this quite brilliantly.

You've nailed it. And somehow I don't think they will be "returning" Gallifrey. You see, in one fell swoop they've neatly rid themselves of a lot of the "baggage" of the old series. There are a lot of things they can now happily ignore.

And yeah...you got it one: Eccles is SERIOUSLY hot ... and rumours of an upcoming bare chested scene...
Neth: Who We Areneth_dugan on 24th April 2005 15:27 (UTC)
*also adds to memories*

I really have to do one of these things myself some day...

With the destruction of Gallifrey, the Doctor's status changes. His entire sense of self is changed. He's not a rebel Time Lord any longer. He's now the last Time Lord. And that changes the playing field considerably. It changes how he views himself, it changes how he views his people, and it affects any relationships he may have with anyone he meets.

I'd agree with you there, completely. Well, as far as I read that paragraph in anycase. It's impossible to be the same person after you've gone through something like that, after you've lost your planet and your people.

In anycase, I agree with you on most of this, though not all. I think me being a Rose/Doc shipper probably has something to do with it. But even putting that aside, this is though out really well, and a great insight into the show.

Thanks for sharing.