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05 April 2008 @ 22:50
 
Okay, so I have been thinking since the end of "Partners in Crime" about the whole "OMG SURPRISE!" Rose cameo. And I'm not really wandering out into my flist or fandom at large yet, cos I want to get my own hopes and thoughts and reactions and such sorted, before I expose myself to everyone else's reactions.

Here's what I hope we get, if they're going to give us One Last Rose Story.

For me personally, the best possible thing from whatever we get with Billie this year would be finding out Rose has learned from her time with the Doctor, and has really found a place for herself where she's doing fantastic work in a job that challenges her, and become more than she was, and is ready to say good-bye in a proactive way that replaces the sad little image of the weeping teenager on the beach. Because that was so not the image I wanted to be our last of Rose Tyler.

But I think (hope) they have probably learned lessons from Sarah Jane Smith--we don't want to see our heroes pining for the life they had with the Doctor like lovesick schoolgirls. That's lame. We want to see them living life the way they ought to, with action and drama and relationships and where they are in charge of their own lives, forging ahead. And having adventures.

That's part of what I absolutely adore about SJA. We see Sarah Jane applying the lessons she learnt with the Doctor, but not regretting her circumstances, and instead always reaching for new horizons. Looking back with fondness, but looking forward with joyful anticipation of what new adventures are out there and meeting them head-on on her own terms. We see it with Martha, too. Martha got a fantastic leaving story where she left with her head held high, actively making her own choices, and making the choice that was best for her (and ehr family). Then we see her out there with UNIT and Torchwood, taking the lessons she learned, and still, like Sarah, looking back fondly, but always looking forward.

I want that for Rose. It's what the character deserves--not to be some footnote failed love interest because she didn't Get The Boy And Live Happily Ever After. That's not fair to her, and it's not fair to the little kids who loved her. Or, frankly, the grown-ups. Rose and Martha didn't fail just because they were in love with an alien who was never going to love them back the way they wanted (or needed) him to. They succeeded in so many other ways (granted, I think Martha more than Rose, as far as, alas, Series 2 was concerned), that it shouldn't come down to "but they lost the boy, and the boy was everything." I personally love seeing female leads who don't define themselves through their relationship with the men in their lives. It would be horribly 1950s otherwise, and lame. It's the 21st century, doods. That just simply won't do. Not for today's 8 year olds or 80 year olds.

(erm... yet another reason why SJA pwns so hard, people. Cos it's not important with whom or even if Sarah or Maria fall in love. Not even a little bit. THIS IS AWESOME and a welcome change, as far as I'm concerned. Tho GOD HELP whatever boy tries to ask Maria out, someday. Between Alan, Luke, and Clyde... yeah, that outta be interesting.)

I want to see "Doomsday" as a new beginning--not an ending. Rose got what she'd always wanted: her dad back and her mother happy, mended fences with the ex-boyfriend she treated horribly (and knew she'd treated horribly, which I always liked, even if it was really only explicit in "Boomtown"), and she had a chance to start over and make something of her life, instead of being That Girl With No A Levels Who Worked In a Shop and Shagged The Boy Next Door When She Felt Like It Cos It Was Comfortable And Familiar.

The Doctor showed her a better life: now she needs to live it, and the series (and god help them, some of the fans) needs to let her. For the sake of all those kids who loved her, and will grow up thinking of her fondly as their first companion. And I need to believe that's exactly what she's doing--not pining for what she had, but making her own choices and her own future without the Doctor, and looking forward, not back.

Also, frankly, I want to see what this potentially means for Donna, who is the latest in a long line. Because Rose's story is finished, but Donna's has only just started. And I'm really curious how the two will potentially book-end the first four series of new Who.
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Vali: Violet Is ClownHatevioletisblue on 6th April 2008 05:22 (UTC)
My first thought at Rose's expression was that she looked like someone who'd been in a war--which some spoilers I've heard indicate might be more right than not--so it would be interesting if her arc and apparent search for the Doctor are part of that sort of "adventure" and nothing to do with any post-"Doomsday" angst at all.
Grimorie: newfarawayrosegrimorie on 6th April 2008 10:38 (UTC)
she looked like someone who'd been in a war--which some spoilers I've heard indicate might be more right than not

You know what? I would actually love it if that was the case. I really, really would.
Valivioletisblue on 6th April 2008 18:47 (UTC)
It would be highly intriguing if they went down that road, I kind of hope it's not just rumors.
Omega II: happyomega_ii on 6th April 2008 05:32 (UTC)
I hope Rose ends up like Sarah Jane as well, because I agree the schoolgirl thing would suck.

I agree on SJA. Female who's lives don't revolve around being romantic foils for males, EPIC WIN. Not that a romance is a bad thing, just as long as it isn't the only thing(like some... oops I mean most shows)for women and girls.
WeHo M.afrocurl on 6th April 2008 07:04 (UTC)
mrbig1316 and I have a theory, but I don't think people will like it. I will post about it tomorrow, I think.
Di-Tutetamine Brohohibe: DW - Ace and the Doctor.undeniablynikki on 6th April 2008 07:52 (UTC)
Yeah, seriously. I hated what they did to Sarah Jane in School Reunion. She was totally fine when she returned in K9 and Company and The Five Doctors, then fast forward to her return in SR and she's this bitter woman who claims to be miserable and her life was totally lame and whatnot. So pathetic. And then the Rose departure.

Sure, the Doctor is like an extremely amazing person and maybe it's not that hard to believe all these people fall in love with him but it makes them really pathetic when he can't return it the love and besides --he's like a thousand years old and when I look at him I have to think of who he was before. I don't want to think of William Hartnell shacking up with a little blonde chavvy girl.

The season season (and all the batshit insane Rose shippers) made me dislike Rose, but this episode, with all the stuff said by Donna and the Doctor, kind of made me rethink some things. I hope that this season will make me like Rose.

The season 3 finale and the Voyage of the Damned were pretty disappointing to me so hopefully this season makes up for them by treating the characters properly instead of making them lovelorn emo puddles of goo.
amy_wolfwolfy_writing on 10th April 2008 17:21 (UTC)
My personal fanon about School Reunion was that Sarah Jane had been having one of those, "What have I done with my life?" weeks before the Doctor showed up, and seeing him running around with a bleach-blonde teenager put her in more of a mood. Her actual reasons for not having major involvement with a guy being 1) having absorbed a little too much of that attitude she'd picked up at the beginning of SJA, and assuming that being involved with someone less capable of looking out for themselves than the Doctor put them in danger (perhaps she'd had a bad experience on that score) and 2) as sweet as Harry was, they really weren't compatible in the long run.
Calapine: rose; still got faithcalapine on 6th April 2008 16:24 (UTC)
Oooooh, you are very good at making me have happy thoughts about things fandom has made sad for me, yes.
Laura Shapiro: what she's havinglaurashapiro on 6th April 2008 16:30 (UTC)
::nodding vehemently in agreement here::
Scarlett Girl: DW - Rose - Badwolf - discordanticonsscarlettgirl on 7th April 2008 18:44 (UTC)
Your hopes and my hopes are quite the same. All I ask for is Rose being all she can be, rather than all she's lost.
stoplookingup: rose wee naked childstoplookingup on 10th April 2008 04:10 (UTC)
Here via Calapine's LJ:

I agree absolutely that, if we're going to get more of Rose's story, it needs to be about what she's become on her own and how she's found the wonderful life she's supposed to have.

But I don't think that by itself is actually enough to put the show back on the right track. There also needs to be an acknowledgement from the Doctor that he wasn't really fair to her, in the same way that Martha's story needs that. The series has given us a sexualized Doctor, a flirtatious Doctor; Rose's relationship with him is filled with moments that dance around some very personal relationship issues. If we then get kick-ass Rose with a BFG and a retcon that implies it was never really all about her relp with the Doctor, that wouldn't really be closure, because it seemed pretty clear that previously, for her, it WAS really all about her relp with the Doctor, and he actively promoted that perception even as the wisdom of that relp was being called into question.

I guess what I'm saying is that we need to see Rose being wonderful; but we also need to see some awareness of exactly what it was Rose needed to grow out of, and some acknowledgement of the Doctor's responsibility for that.
sunlightdances on 10th April 2008 11:50 (UTC)
*nods* (Here via calapine's journal.) That's definitely why Martha pwned so much, in that she realised that he's not the beginning or end of her life. And, it's why I was so relieved when Rose left, because teenage-girl-pining-after-the-hero is pretty tedious, for me. Excellent post.
Pretty Arbitraryprettyarbitrary on 10th April 2008 15:02 (UTC)
*also here vis calapine's journal* I so agree! I liked Rose well enough in the beginning, but everything that's been done with her (and some of the shippers) have her teetering on the verge of ARGGH! for me. I'd like it if they'd give her some resolution that involves her being realized as a person.