ljc ([info]taraljc) wrote,
@ 2007-11-13 12:07:00
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Entry tags:writing tips

Question for UK folk regarding ellipses and full stops...
So far as I knew, according to Hart's Rules in both American and British English when a complete sentence is ended in an ellipsis, indicating some omitted material, there is a full-stop and the next sentence begins with a capital letter.

But I've received some feedback on How to Make Your Beta Reader / Copy Editor / Friendly Neighbourhood Archivist Happier that that's only in American English, not British English.

Can folks point me in the right direction? I want to edit the guide appropriately, and this is the first time I've ever come across the full stop being omitted.... And I'm not exactly known for being a genius where the region-specific grammar rules are concerned.

Help?


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[info]omphalos
2007-11-13 06:27 pm UTC (link)
Hi, I was sent here by [info]wolfling to aid you :)

To quote directly from the Oxford Manual of Style:
An ellipsis at the end of an incomplete sentence is not followed by a fourth full point.

It goes on to list all sorts of exceptions and oddities, but basically the feedback you received is correct.

Edited at 2007-11-13 06:29 pm UTC

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[info]taraljc
2007-11-13 06:46 pm UTC (link)
So no full-stop if the sentance is incomplete, but if the sentance is complete, then it's an ellipsis and a full-stop.

The feedback I got at the Teaspoon unfortunately doesn't seem to indicate when to use an ellipses followed by a full-stop, and when NOT to use it, but states that it's never followed by a full-stop in British English, only American English. Which doesn't make sense to me.

Edited at 2007-11-13 06:58 pm UTC

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[info]ionlylurkhere
2007-11-13 07:10 pm UTC (link)
As best I can tell, there are two ways of doing it (I'd only come across your way before). I don't see much evidence for it being a US/UK split so much as just generally competing style guides.

But now I'm really confused about which of the dots is the full stop in the four-dots-at-the-end-of-a-sentence thing. Surely it's the first dot that's the full stop, since you haven't omitted anything from the sentence before?

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[info]omphalos
2007-11-13 07:20 pm UTC (link)
Ah yes. No reading comprehension marks for me today. ;)

It looks to me as if an ellipsis after a complete sentence should be followed by, or proceeded by, some kind of capping punctuation (full stop, question mark, exclamation mark), but only if the next sentence is also complete.

An ellipsis denoting 'a trailing off, interruption of, or pause in speech or thought' may be an exception to the above. I'm not sure. The manual is far from clear on the subject. Certainly, in the examples it gives, there is no capping punctuation.

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[info]sangerin
2007-11-14 10:26 am UTC (link)
The rule as you have stated is the way the standard legal citation and style-guide for Australia operates.

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[info]dvandom
2007-11-13 07:37 pm UTC (link)
Even in American usage it's riddled with exceptions. :) My college composition professor drove home the point that, in American usage, it's four dots for a trail-off, but three for an interruption.... If it gets picked back up, no space and no capitalization...but if it doesn't get picked back up or interrupted you have ellipses then period then two spaces.

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[info]jheti
2007-11-13 10:12 pm UTC (link)
Er. Wow.

I haven't heard that, but I'm a benighted American university student.

Currently, we're being taught that "..." is a pause, and "[...]" is used in formal quotations, in the MLA and as far as I was aware, APA style, also, to mark the excision of several words from a quote, the same as "[this] would be an example of an original word inserted" to make a quote within a sentence flow better.

It's a wonderful point/post regardless and makes my inner nerd very happy. ^_^

Edited at 2007-11-13 10:14 pm UTC

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[info]onetimeoffer
2007-11-14 01:49 am UTC (link)
Wow, I have never been taught to use a fourth dot after an ellipsis. If one is used to indicate an omission, then it's [...], as per MLA and I think APA, and well, in formal writing that's the only way I'd use an ellipsis. In informal writing, I always do use three dots, and always start the next sentence with a capital letter. I suppose if it were picked up, kind... of like... Captain... Kirk... talking, then I wouldn't capitalize what came after the ellipsis, but I don't know.

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[info]pbristow
2007-11-17 06:38 pm UTC (link)
Yep, this is pretty much my view too. I love using trailing elipses all over the place (usually indicating, "I've stopped talking but I haven't stopped thinking"), and I've never used a forth dot that I can recall. If it's a question, I'll add a query either before the elipses (if the question is complete, but part of a lreger thought that trails off) or after it (if the question is incomplete). And as for capitilsation, that depends whether the text after the ellipses is a new sentence or not. Unless there'sa proper noun invlove, of course.

So:

Harry didn't like to make a fuss about things, but when someone threatened to feed his hand into a meat grinder... you might say he took exception to that.

"I don't like to make a fuss about things, but when someone is threatening to feed my hand into a meat grinder... I suppose I take exception to that."

"I don't like to make a fuss about things, but when someone is threatening to feed my hand into a meat grinder...? Well, anyway, after I knocked him out I called the cops."

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